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> <channel><title>Comments on: Whitewashing Cultural Sepulchers</title> <atom:link href="http://evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/2009/10/whitewashing-cultural-sepulchers.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/2009/10/whitewashing-cultural-sepulchers.html</link> <description>reflections on culture, politics, and religion from an evangelical worldview</description> <lastBuildDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:34:18 +0000</lastBuildDate> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <item><title>By: Will Rowley</title><link>http://evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/2009/10/whitewashing-cultural-sepulchers.html/comment-page-1#comment-101423</link> <dc:creator>Will Rowley</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 07:15:32 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://evangelicaloutpost.com/?p=3921#comment-101423</guid> <description>I love the &quot;spiritual junk food&quot; concept.  We quite literally listen to McDonalds music and deep fried songs dripping in sugar.  Compare to this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUlS8D8rAIQI contend that this one movement expresses the fullest meaning of our lives.  And to think that the genius Mozart could achieve this even without speaking a single word...</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the &#8220;spiritual junk food&#8221; concept.  We quite literally listen to McDonalds music and deep fried songs dripping in sugar.  Compare to this:</p><p><a
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUlS8D8rAIQ" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUlS8D8rAIQ</a></p><p>I contend that this one movement expresses the fullest meaning of our lives.  And to think that the genius Mozart could achieve this even without speaking a single word&#8230;</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Doug Robinson</title><link>http://evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/2009/10/whitewashing-cultural-sepulchers.html/comment-page-1#comment-101420</link> <dc:creator>Doug Robinson</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 01:52:28 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://evangelicaloutpost.com/?p=3921#comment-101420</guid> <description>Starting with the obvious, music should compliment, counterpoint and reinforce the content of lyrics worth listening to. It may seem counter intuitive to some, but in film and video, audo usually has a greater impact than visuals--the sound track makes or breaks the movie. And it usually does this best if it doesn&#039;t draw too much attention to itself--it can&#039;t ursurp the visuals.Regarding songs, maybe we need to bring back the old idea of good taste. Bad tasting food may be very healthy, but there is something wonderful about enjoying the color, aroma, taste, and texture of a well prepared meal or fresh picked fruit.Pop music tends towards the high on calories and presentation, but low on nutrition for the soul. Coupled with biblical lyrics it is akin to spiritual junk food.There are certainly better meals to enjoy--and they absolutely need not leave a bad taste to be substantial.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Starting with the obvious, music should compliment, counterpoint and reinforce the content of lyrics worth listening to. It may seem counter intuitive to some, but in film and video, audo usually has a greater impact than visuals&#8211;the sound track makes or breaks the movie. And it usually does this best if it doesn&#8217;t draw too much attention to itself&#8211;it can&#8217;t ursurp the visuals.</p><p>Regarding songs, maybe we need to bring back the old idea of good taste. Bad tasting food may be very healthy, but there is something wonderful about enjoying the color, aroma, taste, and texture of a well prepared meal or fresh picked fruit.</p><p>Pop music tends towards the high on calories and presentation, but low on nutrition for the soul. Coupled with biblical lyrics it is akin to spiritual junk food.</p><p>There are certainly better meals to enjoy&#8211;and they absolutely need not leave a bad taste to be substantial.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Rachel Motte</title><link>http://evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/2009/10/whitewashing-cultural-sepulchers.html/comment-page-1#comment-101414</link> <dc:creator>Rachel Motte</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 22:25:38 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://evangelicaloutpost.com/?p=3921#comment-101414</guid> <description>Other Doug (as opposed to Brother Doug!),
I agree, but how does one know which music is OK and which isn&#039;t without resorting to a subjective approach to art?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Other Doug (as opposed to Brother Doug!),<br
/> I agree, but how does one know which music is OK and which isn&#8217;t without resorting to a subjective approach to art?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Rachel Motte</title><link>http://evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/2009/10/whitewashing-cultural-sepulchers.html/comment-page-1#comment-101413</link> <dc:creator>Rachel Motte</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 22:20:42 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://evangelicaloutpost.com/?p=3921#comment-101413</guid> <description>Brother Doug,
Well said! It seems like art frequently becomes less excellent when it is bought and sold.  Would it be better to keeps the arts separate from the economy, or is the system OK as is?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brother Doug,<br
/> Well said! It seems like art frequently becomes less excellent when it is bought and sold.  Would it be better to keeps the arts separate from the economy, or is the system OK as is?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Rachel Motte</title><link>http://evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/2009/10/whitewashing-cultural-sepulchers.html/comment-page-1#comment-101412</link> <dc:creator>Rachel Motte</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 22:14:31 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://evangelicaloutpost.com/?p=3921#comment-101412</guid> <description>Ben,
You&#039;re right, &quot;good&quot; and &quot;bad&quot; are probably much too simple to do this discussion justice.  Thank goodness for the comments box!</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben,<br
/> You&#8217;re right, &#8220;good&#8221; and &#8220;bad&#8221; are probably much too simple to do this discussion justice.  Thank goodness for the comments box!</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Will Rowley</title><link>http://evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/2009/10/whitewashing-cultural-sepulchers.html/comment-page-1#comment-101409</link> <dc:creator>Will Rowley</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 07:00:57 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://evangelicaloutpost.com/?p=3921#comment-101409</guid> <description>I&#039;m afraid of homogeneity in taste, the overly simple, and especially the dumbed down.  I can&#039;t think of a worse sin than recording children singing out of tune on purpose.  Countless kiddie Creeschun CD&#039;s are guilty of this.  Little Einsteins is an example of this most horrible kind of travesty.  Of course, my son LOVES it, but since he loves all sorts of other things, I put up with it for short runs, but gently shove him over to the Backyardigans.  We were out eating and my daughter proclaimed, &quot;I love this music&quot;, upon hearing a particularly pathetic and machine like hip hop track.  Since it&#039;s less than one percent of one percent of her palette, I&#039;m not going to fret.  She&#039;s liking the Beatles&#039; &quot;Help&quot;.  This is a simplicity I can get behind.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m afraid of homogeneity in taste, the overly simple, and especially the dumbed down.  I can&#8217;t think of a worse sin than recording children singing out of tune on purpose.  Countless kiddie Creeschun CD&#8217;s are guilty of this.  Little Einsteins is an example of this most horrible kind of travesty.  Of course, my son LOVES it, but since he loves all sorts of other things, I put up with it for short runs, but gently shove him over to the Backyardigans.  We were out eating and my daughter proclaimed, &#8220;I love this music&#8221;, upon hearing a particularly pathetic and machine like hip hop track.  Since it&#8217;s less than one percent of one percent of her palette, I&#8217;m not going to fret.  She&#8217;s liking the Beatles&#8217; &#8220;Help&#8221;.  This is a simplicity I can get behind.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Doug Robinson</title><link>http://evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/2009/10/whitewashing-cultural-sepulchers.html/comment-page-1#comment-101408</link> <dc:creator>Doug Robinson</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 04:27:29 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://evangelicaloutpost.com/?p=3921#comment-101408</guid> <description>There can be a dissonance between Truth in verbal prose or poetry and a lack of Truth in the musical setting.  Better tunes are someitmes called for.  Then, something such as Handel&#039;s Messiah resonates on every level with the better aspirations of our souls.  Then there are wonderful tunes with obviously idolatrous lyrics, such as Imagine by John Lenon and I did it My Way as performed by Frank Sinatra or the Gypsy Kings.We often hear from those who want to confuse and blur the lines, those who tell us: if sex is inherantly good, created by God, than pornographic art is beautiful, just on it&#039;s own terms, and we as Christians should not be uptight moralists, rather we must appreciate the meaning and beauty of pornography for it&#039;s own sake, or, Idolitry is like the true worship of God--just worshiping something else instead of God--but it is still a valid form of worship--As if God himself were secondary and not central, optional and not necessary to true worship.  &quot;Imagine no religion . . .&quot;  Screwtape would be proud.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There can be a dissonance between Truth in verbal prose or poetry and a lack of Truth in the musical setting.  Better tunes are someitmes called for.  Then, something such as Handel&#8217;s Messiah resonates on every level with the better aspirations of our souls.  Then there are wonderful tunes with obviously idolatrous lyrics, such as Imagine by John Lenon and I did it My Way as performed by Frank Sinatra or the Gypsy Kings.</p><p>We often hear from those who want to confuse and blur the lines, those who tell us: if sex is inherantly good, created by God, than pornographic art is beautiful, just on it&#8217;s own terms, and we as Christians should not be uptight moralists, rather we must appreciate the meaning and beauty of pornography for it&#8217;s own sake, or, Idolitry is like the true worship of God&#8211;just worshiping something else instead of God&#8211;but it is still a valid form of worship&#8211;As if God himself were secondary and not central, optional and not necessary to true worship.  &#8220;Imagine no religion . . .&#8221;  Screwtape would be proud.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Ben Ritch</title><link>http://evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/2009/10/whitewashing-cultural-sepulchers.html/comment-page-1#comment-101407</link> <dc:creator>Ben Ritch</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 02:32:11 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://evangelicaloutpost.com/?p=3921#comment-101407</guid> <description>I don&#039;t like the use of bad. Should you understand that the music is important for the emotion conferred by the song- yes.Temet nosce- thine own self thou must know. Understand how things affect you and look at what influences your actions.CheersBen</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t like the use of bad. Should you understand that the music is important for the emotion conferred by the song- yes.</p><p>Temet nosce- thine own self thou must know. Understand how things affect you and look at what influences your actions.</p><p>Cheers</p><p>Ben</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Doug Robinson</title><link>http://evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/2009/10/whitewashing-cultural-sepulchers.html/comment-page-1#comment-101406</link> <dc:creator>Doug Robinson</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 02:15:39 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://evangelicaloutpost.com/?p=3921#comment-101406</guid> <description>There are a number of issues to consider here...(1) The relationship of popular music in America to commercialism and propaganda.Popular music is written with the intent of being sold.  This qualification produces a lot of problems.  The sincerity of popular music is rightly questioned, as is the depth or challenge.  Music that is wanted by the masses is not necessarily music that is good for the masses.  Here music loses its ability to shock or rebuke us, a power that can be effectively used to build virtue.  We are not always supposed to be comfortable or pleased with ourselves and our situaton.  Music can draw us out of this shallowness just as much as it can lead us into it.Incidentally, Theodor Adorno rebuked the use of popular music by the hippie movement of the 1960&#039;s because they tainted their message by putting it into a form that supported the economic structures in power that they were protesting.  He even went so far as to say that popular music was a form replete with fascist ideology.(2)Kitsch is not necessarily the harmless pleasure that we think it is.Kitsch (that is art that is cheap and nonfunctional) has been called by some &quot;a beautiul lie.&quot;  I&#039;ll leave it to everyone to debate what qualifies as kitsch; nevertheless, we should beware of music that seduces us into shallowness and mediocrity.  What is art telling us about what is real?  Is it being realistic about the complexities of life or is it smoothing them over into a blissful landscape that cannot and, even perhaps, should not exist?  This is not because there is no beauty in the world, but precisely because there is.  Kitsch has a way of becoming not only &quot;a beautiful lie,&quot; but an insipidly ugly and deceptive manipulation.  We should ask ourselves the question: Does this describe what is real?(3) This third and final issue is a warning for future critiques: Do not confuse style or technique with idea!I myself am training to compose music in the classical tradition and this is one of the truths that has become especially apparent to me.  I regularly have musicians ask me questions like: Do you write tonal or atonal music?  Which is better?  I repeatedly tell them that I write both and that you can&#039;t judge a technique or harmonic structure as being inherently good or evil.  This would be similar to Plato&#039;s judgment of the modes.  Do they matter?  How you use them matters.  It is far too abstract to judge technique when you need to consider the actual piece of music and the idea that it is putting across, whether that is merely musical or encompasses other things.  This is point that should be made clear from the beginning.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a number of issues to consider here&#8230;</p><p>(1) The relationship of popular music in America to commercialism and propaganda.</p><p>Popular music is written with the intent of being sold.  This qualification produces a lot of problems.  The sincerity of popular music is rightly questioned, as is the depth or challenge.  Music that is wanted by the masses is not necessarily music that is good for the masses.  Here music loses its ability to shock or rebuke us, a power that can be effectively used to build virtue.  We are not always supposed to be comfortable or pleased with ourselves and our situaton.  Music can draw us out of this shallowness just as much as it can lead us into it.</p><p>Incidentally, Theodor Adorno rebuked the use of popular music by the hippie movement of the 1960&#8217;s because they tainted their message by putting it into a form that supported the economic structures in power that they were protesting.  He even went so far as to say that popular music was a form replete with fascist ideology.</p><p>(2)Kitsch is not necessarily the harmless pleasure that we think it is.</p><p>Kitsch (that is art that is cheap and nonfunctional) has been called by some &#8220;a beautiul lie.&#8221;  I&#8217;ll leave it to everyone to debate what qualifies as kitsch; nevertheless, we should beware of music that seduces us into shallowness and mediocrity.  What is art telling us about what is real?  Is it being realistic about the complexities of life or is it smoothing them over into a blissful landscape that cannot and, even perhaps, should not exist?  This is not because there is no beauty in the world, but precisely because there is.  Kitsch has a way of becoming not only &#8220;a beautiful lie,&#8221; but an insipidly ugly and deceptive manipulation.  We should ask ourselves the question: Does this describe what is real?</p><p>(3) This third and final issue is a warning for future critiques: Do not confuse style or technique with idea!</p><p>I myself am training to compose music in the classical tradition and this is one of the truths that has become especially apparent to me.  I regularly have musicians ask me questions like: Do you write tonal or atonal music?  Which is better?  I repeatedly tell them that I write both and that you can&#8217;t judge a technique or harmonic structure as being inherently good or evil.  This would be similar to Plato&#8217;s judgment of the modes.  Do they matter?  How you use them matters.  It is far too abstract to judge technique when you need to consider the actual piece of music and the idea that it is putting across, whether that is merely musical or encompasses other things.  This is point that should be made clear from the beginning.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Tweets that mention Evangelical Outpost » Blog Archive » Whitewashing Cultural Sepulchers -- Topsy.com</title><link>http://evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/2009/10/whitewashing-cultural-sepulchers.html/comment-page-1#comment-101403</link> <dc:creator>Tweets that mention Evangelical Outpost » Blog Archive » Whitewashing Cultural Sepulchers -- Topsy.com</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:08:58 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://evangelicaloutpost.com/?p=3921#comment-101403</guid> <description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Rachel Motte, Tim Motte. Tim Motte said: I&#039;ve been thinking a lot about music &amp; morals recently: http://bit.ly/2Bh1Rc [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Rachel Motte, Tim Motte. Tim Motte said: I&#39;ve been thinking a lot about music &amp; morals recently: <a
href="http://bit.ly/2Bh1Rc" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/2Bh1Rc</a> [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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